Question of Canadians (Ontario specific) regarding PMM Dalton McGuinty

Search

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
15,270
Tokens
Dalton_McGuinty.jpg


From my daily listening to 102.1 EDGE (Toronto) it sounds like PMM McGuinty is a horrible leader solely responsible for the massive taxes and potentially the demise of beautifal Ontario. Is there any basis to this? Or is the Edge just an anti-Liberal party station.

All comments welcome.

Thanks.
 

disable the cable
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
393
Tokens
McGuinty is a bullshittin little weasel.He hasn't kept one of his promises he made before Ontarians voted him in.Wasn't going to raise taxes and the scumbag jacks the taxes up 14%.these phucking Liberals both Federal and Provincial are a bunch of lowlife crooks.
Talkshows here in Ottawa are flooded with pissed off taxpayers.The taxpayers federation is looking into filing a class action suit against these crooks to honor the taxpayers protection act which is a law that would make these crooked Liberals accountable and not be able to promise the moon before being elected and then backing out on all the promises they make.I could go on and on but my blood is boiling while I type this and in danger of busting this fricken keyboard.8 bucks for a pack of smokes......over 30 for a 24 of beer and it's all taxes....^@#$##E#(*&&^%
redflip.gif
 

hangin' about
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
13,875
Tokens
Smokes are now $9.50 a pack here in Southern Ontario ... McGuinty is fücking idiot and the worst part of all of this is that he just got elected last summer. This means we gotta suffer through another three budgets like this. His entire platform (and he won by a landslide, I should add) was to guarantee NO tax increases and NO significant cuts. Since he got in, he's not kept one single promise, not even the ones that are easy to keep. This guy should be looking over his shoulder when he goes out at night.

Ontario is a key province in the federal election, due to the large population (Quebec is the other) and the federal Liberals might get crushed because of this. It's amazing to me that PM Paul Martin didn't have a discussion or influence or whatever on McGuinty before this budget came out.

I don't know one single Ontarian, even the a-political ones who couldn't give a shit, that aren't beyond pissed right now. That station you're listening to, Lander, is geared towards younger people and probably has quite the Liberal audience ... no leftist, rightist, centrist or apathethic voter is going to stand for this. I'm comforted to hear that the taxpayers federation is looking into this and that we may have a recourse. If nothing can be done from a legislative stance, the voters themselves are going to have to take this one to the streets.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
211
Tokens
I always say ... people get the governments they deserve.

Yeah, McGuinty is a self-serving lying scum bag - in other words he is a politician !! They are ALL THE EFFIN SAME !

Do you forget why people god rid of the conservatives ... they were a bunch of self-serving lying scum bags who were about to stick us large by stopping the subsidies to hydro 1.

The point being ... the system is in place ... the puppets you put there are superfluous ... they are all pigs at a trough fnding anyway to stick around long enough for a golden parachute retirement plan.

This is exactly why I tell anybody who will listen to NOT VOTE ... send a real message ... zero % vote means people stand united against being ruled by these effin sob's ...

In the mean time buy your smokes from the indian reserves , apparently there are big savings to be had ... also start brewing your own beer ... it's fun and tastes great ... and while you are at it ... find ways to deal under the table in cash and avoid taxes ...any way you can screw the government DO IT !

And if you get the chance to meet your MPP in a dark alley, well .......................
 

disable the cable
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
393
Tokens
Actually will be picking up a couple of cases of liquor this afternoon at a very cheap price.and I won't be the only one.underground economy will be booming before long.And to think that this dirtbag McGuinty sat there in front of several witnesses and signed under the taxpayers protection act that he wouldn't raise taxes..
1053174822.gif
 

hangin' about
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
13,875
Tokens
Regarding the new Health Care Premiums ... if every employer refused to deduct them from their employee's paycheques, and every employee refused to remit the premium to the Province, what could they do? Throw us all in jail? That would cost even more ....

Anybody know of any anti-McGuinty protests going on?

Meanstreak: can't take that 'don't vote' advice of yours, sorry. I don't know how I'm going to vote in the next fed election, but I will vote. You should look into actually registering a spoiled ballot, a 'vote' that is actually counted, rather than just not showing up. Apathy means nothing to these guys, just gives them a greater sense of 'we know best.' You can go to your polling station and tell them you want to spoil the ballot and they'll show you how to do it. I did just that the last provincial election. McGuinty, Eves or Hampton?? Nice choices.
 

hangin' about
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
13,875
Tokens
The budget in a nutshell:

http://www.ottawabusinessjournal.com/280538548221602.php

UPDATE: McGuinty's health heavy budget has hidden gem for business
By Ottawa Business Journal Staff
Tue, May 18, 2004 4:00 PM EST
The CFIB's Garth Whyte

The "comprehensive" and "compassionate" first budget of Ontario Liberal Premier Dalton McGuinty delivered Tuesday afternoon dished out billions in new spending for healthcare and education that will cost taxpayers an estimated $9 billion over four years.

The Liberals abandoned their election promise of producing a balanced budget and holding the line on taxes. A new healthcare "premium" will start cutting into the pocket books of taxpayers this summer, taking $300 to $900 per year off one's paycheque depending on income.

HIDDEN GEM FOR SMALL BUSINESS

One big gain for small business that is buried under all the focus on healthcare and education is a technical change to provincial legislation that will allow municipalities to create a new tax class.

This new tax class, which would be a sub-class in the commercial category, will give municipalities the wiggle room to address the huge gap between the property taxes that a small business owner pays and what a homeowner pays on a home with the same assessed value. The two amounts are supposed to be the same, but small business owners across the province have suffered for years from higher tax rates.

"The balls back in the court," of Ottawa city council and other municipal governments across the province, said Garth Whyte, executive VP of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. "So we're going to go to city hall and see if we can work something out on that."

Whyte added that he is pleased that the budget did not penalize job creators in any significant way, though he warns that the loss of $1.6 billion from taxpayers' wallets in the first year of the new heathcare premium could hinder economic growth. "That's going to hit consumer spending," he said.

Healthcare will now consume about 45 per cent of the provincial budget for the year. Whyte said that will make taxpayers that much more vigilant about whether or not they are getting their money's worth when they visit a doctor or a hospital.

He also expressed reservations that the Liberal government is increasing spending by 6.9 per cent, three times the rate of inflation. The deficit inherited from the Tories is also being allowed to deepen before it its reined in, but he added that "at least they've got a plan to reduce it."

SHARED GAS TAX

Another gem, this one for municipalities, is that two cents per litre of the taxes that the province collects on gasoline sales will be used to fund city infrastructure needs. A number of big city mayors, among them Ottawa's Bob Chiarelli, has been petitioning the provincial and federal governments for years to share gas tax revenues with the municipality in which they are collected.

In its budget delivered about two months ago, the federal Liberals under Prime Minister Paul Martin balked at making a commitment and said more study of the issue must first be carried out.

the Ontario Liberals are promising to share one cent per litre beginning in October. That amount will increase by a half a cent a year until it reaches two cents in October 2006. The money is meant for public transit, a key infrastructure need of most municipalities.

About 14.7 cents of the price per litre of gasoline is provincial tax. A sharing of two cents per litre will translate into $312 million for municipalities. For the three months of this year that the program will be in effect, the benefit to municipalities will be $39 million.

HIGHER TAXES ON ALCOHOL, TOBACCO

The new spending commitments will also be financed by increasing taxes on cigarettes and alcohol and hiking the cost of a driver's licence renewal.

Hydro costs will also go up as the province shifts about $3.9 billion in electricity liabilities to taxpayers, increasing the average hydro bill by about $1.70 a month. This will reduce the provincial deficit this year from an estimated $6.1 billion to $2.2 billion.

Finance Minister Greg Sorbara, who told the media in recent days that the budget would be "comprehensive" and "compassionate", said Tuesday it was a choice between election promises and what Ontarians really want.

In comments made before delivering his budget, Sorbara emphasized that Ontarians want to see action taken to restore healthcare and education systems battered by years of Tory cuts.

The health premium plan will skim about $1.63 billion from taxpayers' wallets in the first year and $2.6 billion by 2008. It will help pay for $4.8 billion in additional health-care spending over the next four years.

NDP leader Howard Hampton described the premium as the most "regressive" tax in Ontario history.

"This is a tax which will hit every modest and middle-income family. The government is literally picking the pockets of the wrong people," Hampton told the media.

The Canadian Taxpayers Federation was equally critical about the budget and called it a declaration of war on taxpayers.

"They have totally broken faith with the voters of this province," said Tasha Kheiriddin, the CTF's Ontario director. "The Liberals campaigned on a platform of fiscal responsibility, balanced budgets, and no tax hikes.

"At no time did they talk of health taxes or any other multi-billion dollar tax increases," she added. "In fact, they ran election ads and signed a public pledge with the CTF to do the opposite. They promised a balanced budget yet they won't deliver one for another three years. Ontario has returned to the days of rampant tax-and-spend liberalism."

In his budget speech, Sorbara acknowledged that running a deficit and raising revenue with new fees are "choices that are inconsistent with our election commitments; we openly acknowledge that.

"However, it would simply not be possible to deliver a balanced budget this year without destabilizing vital public services and perhaps even the economy itself. Such an approach would be irresponsible, and we reject it."

The healthcare premium and the deficit budget put the Liberals in violation of the Taxpayer Protection Act and the Balanced Budget Act, both introduced by the Tories. To address that problem, Sorbara said the Liberals will simply repeal and revamp those acts.

The four-year plan for education is for $2.1 billion to help reduce class sizes, hire 1,000 more teachers, improve literacy levels and ensure stable funding for school boards.

The budget also avoids making any substantial cuts to the provincial civil service to achieve its goals. However, budgets in 15 different ministries will be frozen or reduced. Average annual increases to program spending will be capped at 1.9 per cent.

AMONG THE HIGHLIGHTS:

* Cigarette prices will go up by $2.50 a carton by Wednesday, the cost of a case of beer by 45 cents June 21 and wine 15 cents a bottle. These measures will add about $60 million to government coffers.

* Welfare and disability benefits will go up three per cent, the first such increase in 11 years.

Health-care spending will rise by $4.8 billion over four years to $32.9 billion in 2007.

* Most eye exams, physiotherapy and chiropractic services will no longer be covered by the provincial health plan, saving the government about $143 million.

* The cost of drivers' licences will up, with the five-year rate up 50 per cent to $75.

$3.3 billion has been earmarked for public transit, roads and bridges. Ottawa already saw some of that money committed as part of last week's $600-million O-Train transit announcement.

* Provincial deficit to be cut from $6.2 billion to $2.2 billion by next March, eliminated by 2008.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
585
Tokens
I'm not a canadien but I live not to far away. Believe me when I say, they come down to the states to buy everything from groceries, smokes, clothes, to receive decent health care, go to our colleges, get married to an American and then become American citizens. That is considered the Canadien dream.
Nothing is better about Canada than the States -well I take that back - the fishing is good, the beer is good and they do know how to play hockey better.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,723
Tokens
xpanda, I thought liberals like you loved taxes as a way of punishing the rich, who are 'winners of life's lottery', you might say. Welcome to our side.
 

hangin' about
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
13,875
Tokens
The liberal side of my politics has little to do with economics and everything to do with my belief in personal freedom. On gov't spending, I do favour public education and public health care as I consider both to be an investment in human capital. I favour multiculturalism, lax immigration (anybody ever wonder why NAFTA only applies to goods, not people?), decriminalising pot, gay marriage, abortion rights, etc. However, I also favour tax reductions for small business, the abolition of agri-business subsidies, flat taxes. In other words, left wing on social issues, right-centre on economic issues. I usually vote Liberal in the federal elections and Conservative in the provincials.

Your term 'winner of life's lottery' is a good one ... I must remember that. I don't purport to wanting to 'punish' this group, but I do think that society should want to do as much as possible to allow people at the bottom to have access to the top. There are so many policies and practices in place which prevent this from happening (especially in the US and in the international arena) that one can argue it to be as immoral as directly taxing the rich more heavily. Hoarding wealth should not be seen as 'good business.'
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
335
Tokens
I haven't been living in Ontario since Dalton got elected, but look at the alternatives! Ernie Eves and the Tories?!!? Howard Hampton and the NDP!!??! The sad truth is that Ontario was destined for 4-5 years of absolutely awful government no matter who we voted for. That being said, I would have voted Tory in the last election had I been around . ..
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,723
Tokens
Thanks for explanation xpanda. Although you didn't condone legislating it, but I think the risk one ends up with having traveled down the slippery slope of not letting people "hoard wealth" is you are in the end going to punish achievement, which ends up hurting the creation of capital in the long term. After all, what will be the use of being entrepreneurial, only to be told "you can't hoard wealth", after becoming successful.
icon_smile.gif


[This message was edited by Redneckman on May 20, 2004 at 04:59 PM.]

[This message was edited by Redneckman on May 20, 2004 at 05:02 PM.]
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
15,270
Tokens
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jointpleasures:
I'm not a canadien but I live not to far away. Believe me when I say, they come down to the states to buy everything from groceries, smokes, clothes, to receive decent health care, go to our colleges, get married to an American and then become American citizens. That is considered the Canadien dream.
Nothing is better about Canada than the States -well I take that back - the fishing is good, the beer is good and they do know how to play hockey better.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JP,
The southern Canadian's constantly come just across the bridges to Buffalo, Niagara, Tonawanda (etc ..) to fill up on gas and "smuggle" back cigerettes (and booze if possible).

Pretty fuked up, but on the same token we can sneak across and smuggle in Cubans and dirt cheap liquor from the duty free (not that I would dare fuk with customs after 9/11 & the security overhaul).
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
15,270
Tokens
I also heard that Paul Martin reiterated his support for McGuinty today and blamed the budget on the previous administration. wtf is Martin thinking?

Is it political suicide?
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
211
Tokens
Panda, with all due respect, spoiling a ballot would make me complicit in this charade called democracy. Just because you don't believe it, does negate the simple truth that the machine is up and running, who you have manning the switches has little overall impact.

Governments exist SOLELY to redistribute wealth while skimming off the top for themselves. The mistake people make is thinking that if the government did not 'provide' services that the services would not be provided - which is patently false - anything that requires being done will get done - where there is a buck to be made there will always be someone there to make it - healthcare, infrastructure, power etc - just cut out the middle man - give us complete control over our income and we will spend it where necessary.

Anyway, I digress, - ballot spoiling is an extremely impotent, and otherwise weak way to make a statement - if they don't listen to my apathy then what makes you think they will listen to a a faceless spoiled piece of paper ?

Peace.
 

disable the cable
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
393
Tokens
It's official..Canadian taxpayers federation is filing a lawsuit next week to make that weasel McGuinty accountable.Seems Dalton has a few people fired up.
suomi.gif
 

hangin' about
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
13,875
Tokens
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Redneckman:
Thanks for explanation xpanda. Although you didn't condone legislating it, but I think the risk one ends up with having traveled down the slippery slope of not letting people "hoard wealth" is you are in the end going to punish achievement, which ends up hurting the creation of capital in the long term. After all, what will be the use of being entrepreneurial, only to be told "you can't hoard wealth", after becoming successful.
icon_smile.gif


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I refer to 'hoarding wealth' I'm not necessarily referring to Jane Q. Public who works her ass off, has a great idea, and is worth ten million by the time she dies. I'm talking about how the rich in developed countries get in bed with politicians (or become politicians themselves) to shape monetary and fiscal policy in their favour.

On the issue of taxes, loopholes and subsidies and exemptions are applied more frequently and more readily to those industries and their leaders who already own a tremendous amount of capital while the middle class, generally, takes the hit. Why is it that we only concern ourselves with what unfair tax laws will do to the uber-rich but not so much what they do to the bulk of the population? Would a flat tax, and the elimination of all tax breaks, not solve most of these discrepencies?

Directtv: VERY happy to hear that, thanks for the update.

Lander: Martin has no choice ... with a federal election looming, Ontario will be the principal province and he has to convince Ontarians that the Liberals have good and reasonable intentions. That, and the federal Liberals used the same reasoning when they won the leadership from the Conservatives.

[This message was edited by xpanda on May 22, 2004 at 12:05 AM.]
 

disable the cable
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
393
Tokens
McGuinty's brother is running here in Ottawa in the upcoming election and will get buried thanks to his weasel brother Dalton
icon_eek.gif
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,119,239
Messages
13,565,768
Members
100,771
Latest member
Bronco87
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com